Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer
Aired October 7, 2007
BLITZER: Mr. President, Welcome back to Washington . Good to have you back in the United States .
PRES. JALAL TALABANI, IRAQ : Thank you very much. I'm glad to see you again.
BLITZER: When do you think the United States will begin to start reducing significantly the number of its troops in Iraq ? About 160,000 American forces there.
TALABANI: In next year.
BLITZER: When next year?
TALABANI: In the spring of the next year, I think.
BLITZER: Going down to what?
TALABANI: Yes. I think if this rearming of the Iraqi army will be speed (ph), it will be done quickly. In the next spring, the United States can start to reduce tens of thousands of these forces from Iraq . And I think it's possible at the end of the next year that a big part of the American Army will be back here.
BLITZER: What percentage would you say of 160,000? By the end of 2008, how many U.S. troops would you guess would still...
TALABANI: More than 100,000 can be back by the end of the next year.
BLITZER: So it will be -- by the end of next year, it will be down to 60,000 American troops?
TALABANI: Well, I cannot decide the number of the...
BLITZER: Approximately?
TALABANI: It is up to the commanders of the United States , military commanders to say. But I think big majority of the American forces can leave the country.
BLITZER: But would you like to see the United States have permanent military bases in Iraq ?
TALABANI: I am supporting military bases. And I am proposing since long time three bases, three military bases after the ending of the American regime. One in north, one in the south, and one in the middle of Iraq , with small numbers of American officers and soldiers for training and for the stability of Iraq , and preventing our neighbors from interfering in our internal affairs.
But I cannot describe if permanent or (inaudible) it will be, preferred (ph) for a while until it will be needed.
BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about this resolution that passed the United States Senate. Senator Joe Biden introduced it. It passed 75 to 23. It supposedly calls for what they say is a soft partition of Iraq into three areas.
I'm going to read to you what Senator Biden wrote with Leslie Gelb the other day in The Washington Post: "Federalism is the one formula that fits the seemingly contradictory desires of most Iraqis to remain whole and of various groups to govern themselves for the time being. It also recognizes the reality of the choice we face in Iraq : a managed transition to federalism or actual partition through civil war."
Are those the two options, civil war or what he calls this federalism, three separate areas?
TALABANI: I agree. I agree with Senator Biden. And I have full respect of him. I know him as a good friend -- a great friend of the Iraqi people and Kurdish people. And I think the resolution passed by the Senate is a very good one. And I protected it in my interview with Al Hurra.
I say that those who are criticizing it, they didn't read it carefully, because if they read it, you see in every article that it is insisting on the unity of Iraq, of the security of Iraq, of prosperity of Iraq, of national reconciliation and asking our neighbors not to interfere in internal affairs of Iraq.
And even when talking about other regions, it says it must be according to the population and the elected leaders of the country.
BLITZER: You're the president of Iraq , but you are also a Kurd -- an Iraqi Kurd. I want to read to you from a recent article in The Los Angeles Times about Kurdistan and tell me if you agree with it.
TALABANI: I didn't read it.
BLITZER: I'm going to read it to you right now.
TALABANI: Yes, please.
BLITZER: All right. Listen to this: "The Kurdish region's exploding economic and political power has begun to shape northern Iraq 's reality. Few doubt what will happen when U.S. forces exit. Grown strong and rich in their enclave of more than 16,000 square miles, Iraq 's Kurds will rush to annex Tamim and other areas in Diyala and Nineveh provinces they have laid claim to, which could double the size of their de facto state."
Do you think that that will happen? Once U.S. troops leave, Kurdistan will double in its size?
TALABANI: No, I don't think so. I think this is...
BLITZER: You are smiling, though, when you're saying that.
TALABANI: Yes, because -- no, I think this problem will be solved in this year, before the American departure. Because according to 140 article of the constitution, the issues of other Kurdistan parts which are not now included in the regional government must be solved according to the...
BLITZER: Should Kurdistan be -- should the Kurds have an independent state?
TALABANI: No. There is no possibility of having independent Kurdistan for many reasons. And I think the interests of the Kurdish people nowadays is in being a part of democratic federated regime in Iraq .
BLITZER: And what's the biggest downside? Because I've watched the Kurdish situation for many, many years, and a lot of people who love the Kurds have always felt these are people who should have their own independent state. TALABANI: Yes. Many people think, but it is not realistic.
BLITZER: Why?
TALABANI: Let me explain for you. Let us imagine that Kurdistan declares independence. Turkey , Iran , Iraq , Syria , they then send arms to fight that, but close the border, how we can leave? How can go outside and come inside? This is impossible.
And the interest -- and in reality, no, I don't think that Turkey or Iran or Syria will accept this. So, we must be realistic. Now the interests of the Kurdish people is in the framework of a united, democratic, federative Iraq .
And we can, as we have now, rule our area, develop it. And you see now our area is secure, prosperous, and developed very well. So this...
BLITZER: Kurdistan is a model. Let's talk a little bit about Nouri al-Maliki, because he's been widely accused of not getting the job done. There were hearings in Washington this week of vast corruption in Iraq , $18 billion, that was a number that was thrown out.
I'm going to read to you what Ayad Allawi, the former interim prime minister of Iraq , wrote in The Washington Post back in August. He said: "Prime Minister Maliki has squandered Iraq 's credibility in Arab politics. He cannot restore it. It is past time for change at the top of the Iraqi government. Without that, no American military strategy or orderly withdrawal will succeed. And Iraq in the region will be left in chaos."
Those are the words of Ayad Allawi.
TALABANI: Well, I don't agree with my friend Ayad Allawi. I think Maliki is now, in this moment, the best man to be prime minister of Iraq . He is a clean man. He is against all militias. And he's facing all non-governmental...
BLITZER: What about the accusations of corruption in this government?
TALABANI: Yes. I will come to it. He is against all kinds of militias. Second, he is a clean man. He is against corruption. Corruption have been done before his seizing the power. And there are corruptions through. But that was in the governments before him.
Many people were accused even at the time of my friend Ayad Allawi, minister of defense, for example, what were accused for corruption...
BLITZER: So you still have confidence in Nouri al-Maliki?
TALABANI: Yes. I have -- personally, I have confidence in him. He is a pure and clean man. And he's against corruption.
BLITZER: Is he too close to the Iranians?
TALABANI: No, is independent. He's independent. And he was always. Living outside the country, even at the time of opposition, he lived in Syria , not in Iran .
And believe me, my relation with Iran is better than his relation with Iran . Believe me.
BLITZER: Do you trust the Iranians, that they're helping Iraq , or are they hurting Iraq ?
(CROSSTALK)
Because the U.S. position is they are hurting.
TALABANI: In politics, there is not trust. In love, it is between a boy and girl. But in politics there are national interests. I think Iranians nowadays, nowadays, they are helping to stop the Mahdi Army, which is good -- very good help to Iraqi people because the activity of Mahdi Army was threatening a civil war among Shias and sectarian conflict.
BLITZER: Because if you think they are helping, I want you to listen to what General David Petraeus recently said when he was here in Washington testifying before the Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETRAEUS: None of us, earlier this year, appreciated the extent of Iranian involvement in Iraq , something about which we and Iraq 's leaders all now have greater concern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He says they're sending arms...
TALABANI: Yes, but he...
BLITZER: ... and providing explosive devices.
TALABANI: Let me explain. We Iraqis are not preferring to have interference from any country, either from Iran , nor from Syria , nor Turkey , nor Saudi Arabia , everywhere. We want independent Iraq that no one of our neighbors can interfere in our internal affairs -- of course, Iran included; we don't want Iran to interfere in our internal affairs.
We want good relations with Iran . We have a long border with Iran . We are in need to have a kind of good relations with Iran , but not interference in our internal affairs at all.
BLITZER: All right. Let me ask you this question about a resolution that Senator Joe Lieberman and Jon Kyl introduced that was passed by the Senate 76 to 22.
And it says this: "It is the sense of the Senate that the United States should designate Iran 's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization."
The Quds Force -- is it a terrorist organization?
TALABANI: Well, let me say that I cannot agree completely with this...
BLITZER: So agree or disagree?
TALABANI: No, I disagree.
BLITZER: Senator Lieberman is a strong friend of yours.
TALABANI: Yes. But I have respect and very good relations with Senator Lieberman. He has been (inaudible). But I cannot describe all Quds Force as terrorists, because it is a part of Iranian regime. They are the Revolutionary Guards of Iran.
So perhaps some people of them committed some mistakes there, here, but I cannot -- the biggest armed force of Iran , I cannot describe it as terrorist army.
BLITZER: We are almost out of time. A quick question on the private American security forces...
TALABANI: Yes.
BLITZER: ... that are protecting American diplomats, American contractors in Iraq , the Blackwater uproar. How do you resolve this issue, because right now...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: ... they are doing their job to protect American diplomats?
TALABANI: They did good jobs and they did -- in general they were protecting American diplomats. But sometimes they kill civilians and innocent people. So it was no reason for doing this kind of crime.
BLITZER: Should they be subject to Iraqi law, these private American contractors?
TALABANI: According to the law issued by Ambassador Bremer, no. But we think, if you get our independence...
BLITZER: You have your independence.
TALABANI: Yes, but not completely. You see, still, the security is shared between multinational forces and Iraqi forces. When we will finish it, then there must a kind of -- of course, Iraqi forces must look to everything. But nowadays, I think there must be special treatment for those who are protecting our American friends, providing the condition they not kill Iraqi civilians.
BLITZER: But if they do kill Iraqi civilians, who should they -- who should hold them accountable?
TALABANI: Well, we ask that there must be a joint committee between United States of America and Iraq -- the Iraqi government to discuss this issue and to see and look for a solution for this issue.
BLITZER: Because as you know, the prime minister, Nouri al- Maliki, he despises this arrangement, that there are these private American citizens...
TALABANI: No. He asked that a joint committee must be formed between the United States and Iraq to solve this problem. And this is our official position.
BLITZER: We have to leave it there, Mr. President. Always good to see you. Welcome back to Washington .
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